The Kind of Vulnerability that Strengthens and Secures You

In this episode Gabrielle has the pleasure of sitting down with Chandler Merritt for a conversation on vulnerability. Chandler is an administrative genius but more importantly she is an incredible human who has uniquely learned the role vulnerability plays in strengthening and securing her. You don't want to miss the visual picture she paints for how the process of being vulnerable fortifies the truth about our past and helps us move forward with new perspective and healing. 

Letter from the host:

Dear Beloveds, 

Reflecting on and responding to the faithful and intelligent love of God has been therapeutic to my mind, heart, and body! I vulnerably share because I want you to experience the joy of authentic connection with Jesus, yourself, and others. 

Growth happens at the point of connection. Thank you for trusting me with this connection! I'm glad to be with you! 

With joy, 

Gabrielle Michelle 

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Transcript

Gabrielle Leonard: 0:25

Welcome to the return to joy podcast. I'm your host, Gabrielle Michel Leonard. Here we're leading people to cultivate joy through storytelling. We hope listening will reveal pathways to unlocking the healing power of connection, so that you can see your relationships and the world around you transformed from fractured into flourishing. I'm really excited for this podcast episode. Today, we're going to be talking about vulnerability and vulnerabilities relationship to our ability to experience intimacy with the Lord, and connection with other people, as well as vulnerability being a key piece, and experiencing strength and wholeness. And for this episode, I felt like it was I had to ask like Chandler to be a part of this because Chandler Merritt, she embodies vulnerability beautifully. Chandler Marriott is the administrative shepherd for wildfire network, and also for returning to joy. And she is a key piece into the team. I can't see how we function as team together, and how we do what, what God's called us to do without her, her role is crucial. And we need not only the work that she contributes to the great to the work that we're doing, but we need her personhood. And so I'm asking Jan, last chance to come in on this episode, and do this episode with me. Because I believe that her simply being behind the microphone, will help you get something about vulnerability that you haven't gotten before. Because let's be honest, vulnerability is a topic that a lot of people talk about. And so there can be a question of man, do you add any more, you know, noise to that conversation? And something that I'm learning right now is? Yeah, because there's a value to what each of us have to wit have to bear witness to and see about an 80 and say about an experience and Chandler. Chandler's perspective on vulnerability is not just a perspective with words, but it is embodiment it is her and how she carries herself and who she is. And so if you're listening to this episode, I know that you're going to be so thoroughly blessed by this conversation. I'm blessed because I actually usually prefer having a dialogue or interviewing style podcast. And so I get to do that today with Chandler. And so Chandler, thank you so much for being on this podcast episode.

Unknown: 3:05

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to get to do this and very honored that you even asked me to. So thank you.

Gabrielle Leonard: 3:11

Oh, of course, of course, will. Chandler, I know that not only do you function in that role as administrative shepherd for wildfire network and return to joy, but you've you've led a ministry before called back stitch. And backstage was this beautiful place where women who were experiencing depression and anxiety could show up in an intimate environment and just be, they could express where they were at. They could experience fellowship, and even being able to tangibly make something with their hands, and specifically, you guys were making blankets. Sometimes fleeces that I love the aspect of, then afterwards, you guys would give to the homeless, which is so beautiful, but I want to know, like, tell start us off by just telling us why the name backstitch Why did you why did you choose that name?

Unknown: 4:05

Yeah, that was something that early on when I was deciding that I even wanted to do this or that the Lord was calling me to do this, that I struggled with for a while trying to come up with a name and just kind of searching and searching in fabulous prompting of the Lord to be like, Look, what is the strongest stitch? And so I looked it up and many sewers and craft ladies out there, they know that it's the back stitch. And so I was looking into like, Okay, well, what is the back stitch, because the funny thing is, I bled a group of people on making blankets when I didn't know how to even really sell. So had to look up even what that meant of what is the back stitch. And the back stitch is basically where you sew forward a few stitches, and then you stitch backwards and then continue going forward. So it's this idea of reinforcing us a line that you're selling. I can continually as you're going out, and I started that was this really beautiful image of what I got to see what healing looks like, of going forward going forward. And part of that healing process is having one the willingness to be vulnerable to go back into either relive past pain or process through past pain that you can't you, you can't go forward until you go back and and it is it's a hard thing. But it's it's something that is very needed and necessary in order to have a full level of healing. You can't move forward unless you understand what's come like what's happened or what's come before. And so that idea of going back and processing through things with the Lord and being willing to be vulnerable and to experience pain, again, that's a big part of vulnerability is not just opening yourself up to hidden or secret areas of your life. But it's also like maybe having to experience pain as well. Yeah. And so being willing to be able to go back and to do those things and seeing the beauty in that and because it's, that else is also another thing is that it's not just a, you're going back five stitches, it's you're going forward, two or three, you go back one, you go for two, or three, and you come back one and yeah, you're always moving forward, and just refortified those areas that need to be fortified, and everything. So yeah,

Gabrielle Leonard: 6:27

that's really good. Chandler that's really good. I think that was said so beautifully. And you said something that I didn't even expect for it to just grabbed me the way it did. But I, I don't know if I've thought about vulnerability before as not necessarily just the willingness to be exposed and to share, to let in, let people see hard places. But I that really hit me what you said about vulnerabilities is also this willingness to experience pain. Yeah.

Unknown: 7:03

It's like, if you think about any time that you have to undergo some form of like, medical procedure or anything like that, and they have to put you under and your, your body's being opened and exposed so that they can go in and do the healing and stuff. But the reality of that is that one, if there wasn't the wonder that is anesthesia. Like that would be an incredibly painful process having to like live through surgery, but then even afterwards of that, like there's still a level of healing you even have to do after you've opened yourself up and you've been stitched back up, like you have to right kind of recover from that. And that's one of the things that I like, from what I understand of when you're even trying to like, under if you know that you're getting ready to undergo some form of like, surgical operation, is that, okay, part of that is that I'm gonna have to be experiencing pain afterwards. Yeah, or during depending upon what procedure or whatever is it that it is going on? And I think it is sometimes easy to just see it, okay, no, I am going to be vulnerable. Because it's sometimes that is just I'm going to be willing to share something with somebody that they may not know, that is a hard thing for me. And sometimes that can be well received. And even in times where it is well received. Like you're still sharing something that is a hard place and it's something that is hard in is a lot of the times like hurtful and painful.

Gabrielle Leonard: 8:33

Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons why I love that so much is because even just for myself, like just naturally, I'll think, okay, yeah, I'm gonna be vulnerable about this is where I'm, I'm, you know, exposing myself in this area, and I, I lean more. So I'm thinking about the courage it takes to just be vulnerable. And so I'm heavily thinking, Alright, I can do this, I can be vulnerable. I have courage, that's strength for me, I have courage. But then after the fact, maybe once I've been hurt, you know, I'm just thinking about in relationships with people. We're like, Man, I gave so much of my heart. In that situation I let I like I love deeply. They're like, I was very vulnerable with that person, or I was vulnerable with my team. And I let a piece of me I made a piece of myself available to them. I did the courageous thing, right. But then the backside once there has been pain because maybe I've been let down. Or maybe that was harder afterwards. Once you've done it, you realize even if some people did amazing job of responding, there's still sometimes that like, residual pain of idea that oh my gosh, and that actually that acces almost feels very traumatizing sometimes reliving it. Yeah. And so I don't think I have thought as much about that when you make the decision to be vulnerable. You're not only making the decision to step out courageously, but you're also maybe like, you know, premeditated you're also going in knowing I'm also right now in this moment choosing to be willing to experience pain. And I think that's I'm hearing that is benefited from myself, even if just man, that's the piece the component I need to add to is thinking about. I'm making a choice. I'm exposing myself to the potential experience pain again. Yeah.

Unknown: 10:24

I think that's one of the reasons why lots of people, they aren't willing to do it. And because they know that this isn't, this isn't something that they either want to experience or they might not be ready to. And I think that's also another important part of that is that being vulnerable doesn't mean that you have to share everything all at once. Typically, that looks like okay, I'm gonna share this little specific part because that's all that I can handle, like, either opening up to this person about or opening up to the Lord about or like processing that right now. Because, I mean, like I say, and Trek, like Ogres are like onions, everything has layers. And, like, the healing process is like that, too, I think is one of those things that I know that they when they talk about the process for healing, it feels like this cyclical nature where it's like you're going forward, and then it feels like you're going backwards. And that going backwards, it's not an a negative going backwards, like with a backstitch. It's a, you're fortifying an area, like you're going back to that you can make that area stronger, so that you can continue going. So that, like, the two pieces of fabric don't just fall apart. Yeah. Technically, you can just sew a stitch in one line from beginning to end straight, it can stay together. But it's those back stitches that was like, that's what gives it the strength and resilience to be able to, like, withstand a lot of different things that would cause it to weather that you just wouldn't have if you just if you weren't, if you didn't do those, like different fortifying stuff,

Gabrielle Leonard: 12:04

I definitely hear resiliency being there. And what you're saying, and, and I, I think for sure, the times in thinking about that intimacy, peace, the vulnerability that leads to a deeper intimacy, or we could say, even resiliency in relationships, in thinking about the relationship with Christ. Anytime that I've gone back to, to a place of pain with the Lord, to a place that that had hurt, and maybe even residually was like, still hurting, when he was present with me in that space, and validated my pain, which, which I love that that word validate means to give the right to feel pain. And so when he would validate that space, of of pain, it only strengthened my relationship with him. And then I could continue forward. How would you say that? Can you can you give us some examples? Two ways in which ways that you we went back to places of pain for yourself, and how that strengthened. Move your your forward progress?

Unknown: 13:13

Yeah. I guess kind of one of the most recent examples of that is, me and my husband, we kind of have worked through some different marital troubles and traumas over the past few years and during COVID and everything that it's been probably two years since we've been in that space. And our marriage has only grown exponentially since then. But there's been times where I've recognized that I thought that I had fully healed from something or that like, oh, this hadn't bothered me before. And realize that there actually were deep levels of healing that I needed to experience in different areas. One specific areas that one thing that had been an issue for us was this. Not feeling like I could fully express a need or a want. And that's not an issue anymore. Like that is something that I feel safe doing. But there's been times where either out of frustration or not even frustration, it was just something that reminded me of a way that our relationship had been before or that he had acted to me before in the past would trigger me in a way that I would then revert back it was almost kind of like a level of I have like, almost like PTSD and was realizing, okay, there's something there that obviously is not is not fully healed, I need to circle back and to figure out what that is. And honestly, I didn't want to because we had been doing so well for a long time. And I knew that opening, opening back the curtain on those meant that there was going to be old feelings that I had felt during a really traumatic time in my life that I wasn't ready to feel again. Yeah. And it took me a while before I was ready to bake. Okay, Lord, I am ready to go back in to look at those and to be able to process through because part of that was having to realize that realize that I was telling myself there were reminders that I needed Ryan myself that like no loops, not that same person anymore. I'm not that same person anymore. We're not in those same situations like that. Having to retell my brain reprocess through like, I need, I can't recognize that these things aren't true anymore by not going back and looking at the past to be able to see the difference between it. And I could that was really hard. Because when if you're looking back at something where you've experienced pain before, even if it has been yours, like, it's not something that you can just look back on and be like, Oh, okay, yeah, I can look at that I fully detached Yeah. And it's something that I do, lingers and you carry with you. And it's something that I, as I know, as life continues to go on, like, whenever there's like a death of a loved one, or a traumatic experience, like what I'd experienced with my husband, like, there's going to be continual times where I know that, okay, there's an area there that needs to be fortified, because that's not fully healed. And part of that means you get having to go back and re experience that loss again, or re experiencing that trauma, which thankfully does get easier. As time goes on, the more that we relive something, the more that we can see it through the lens that isn't ours and see it through the lens that is the Lord's, it's good. Which has helped that to feel more like a safe space. Yeah. Because typically, when you go back and look at things, you can see where the Lord was in different areas, like a part of my testimony that I've shared before, was during elementary school, I was heavily bullied for not being good at sports. I was in a school where that was the big thing. And because I wasn't my entire grade, like severely bullied me for it. And I always questioned like, Lord, where were you during that time. And there was a girl that I that when I look back later in life, that I recognize that the Lord's mercy was not stopping them, but was sending me a friend that was able to be able to stand up for me in ways that I couldn't. And there were times in periods where we weren't friends, we didn't get along. But during that time period, she was like one of the only friends that I had. And I didn't even make that correlation until like, maybe a year or two ago. And that's when I was 10. So it does get easier every time you go back and relook at it. But then you also can see where the Lord was. And he helps to not make it rosy and to make it okay, but you can see it with clear lenses and see it through a perspective that's not yours and can see more truth. That's what was actually happening behind the scenes or things that you weren't aware of, or how that plays into a bigger story. Or I think that's one of the key things with vulnerability is like what you were saying is that one validating that pain, but then also, there's some level of understanding that you have to come to at some point to have healing whether that understanding is that it's just a part of your story or that the Lord showing you where he was understanding not necessarily mean the understanding why it happened, but understanding the truth of what was actually going on in that situation.

Gabrielle Leonard: 18:31

Yeah, yeah. I love that what you're saying like seeing what you're not seeing just I, I hear a lot and that you're, you're saying many things, good things. I think one of the things that I want to point out and then have you expound on is one I'm loving the language of like fortifying like that word. Every time you say it just really strikes me of fortifying areas, even just from your past. So you can you can continue to go forward but in strength, because I think sometimes we can over emphasize just moving on going forward, which I think is where we get in, in our walk with Christ in the Christian faith where you can just where it's just memorized true, right? And again, not not saying here that memorizing Scripture, telling yourself the truth is bad. Those are good things, but sometimes as a as a crutch to not go there and be vulnerable with the Lord not go there and be vulnerable other people or even with ourselves and admit we've had pain admit there's there's some fractiousness within our soul. We just stick a bandaid of saying, no, no, no, but I know I'm a child of God. No, no, no, but I but I know that the Lord is with me. And we're we're using truth statements and truth to bandaid woundings of the past. So we don't have to go there. Instead of going there with the Lord. And said though, that those truths, those things that are true can actually be fortified, which is not a band aid. I hear I hear two separate things going on there. Like no, you're talking about fortification, you're talking about like, how am I something that that can't be torn down easily? Versus Yeah, just efforts to patch up

Unknown: 20:23

an image that comes to my brain a lot. I don't know the term for it. But I know that in Japanese pottery, there's a style of pottery where, when a piece of pottery breaks, they piece it back together, but where that crack was its line, and it's basically mended in gold. So you can see where that crack is. But it's this thing of beauty. And so I typically like whenever I think of those things, where I'm going in and fortifying an area, you don't fortify an area that you're strong, and you fortify an area that either is paying for that your weekend, I imagined being this piece of pottery that's been broken, but like the Lord's going in and fortifying it with cement, like something that can't be broken, and that is an area of strength, because it's not, it's an area that I know that when I return back to I have to rely on the Lord. And that when I'm in that space, any good that comes out of that situation is not of Me, it's obviously the Lord. So I'm actually stronger in those areas, because I'm more fully dependent upon the Lord or I'm more fully dependent upon his perspective and an area because I know that I can't see it clearly or speak to it clearly. And so it is another thing that I typically say a lot too is that something that I struggle with is that my heart and my head, don't believe the same thing. And kind of what you're saying of those band aids of like, this is truth. And my head knows that, but my heart doesn't. And sometimes it does take wrestling with the Lord, to be able to get your heart to understand that. And that's something that I know that I struggle with, too is that with allowing yourself to be vulnerable with the Lord and to be able to process through things, because that's also something to it's you're not just being vulnerable for vulnerability sake, yeah, you're being vulnerable, so that you can process through to get to the other side. And I feel like that's either something that's not done, you're just you're vulnerable, and you open up but then you don't actually move forward. Or you're not actually like, you're not allowing the Lord to be able to speak into a situation or allowing a person that you're opening up to, to be able to speak into a situation. And it does take some wrestling in. That's the part that I don't like, I hate conflict, not just conflict with people, apparently I hate conflict with the Lord, because it's hard for me to be able to say, Lord, I don't understand and I'm a little angry with you. It was something that this happened in. Being vulnerable is something that's scary. And it's something that I know that the Lord sees and he understands, and he knows the strength that it takes to be vulnerable. And just like the Lord creates a safe space for us to be vulnerable. I think it's also important for us to create a safe space for other people to be vulnerable with. Because of that safe space is ruined. There's, you're not going to want to return back to it. The only way that you can return Ike is knowing that this is a safe space that I know that I've come back to before and healings happened or I've come back to before and there's been fortification or have come back to before and there's been understanding it's that kind of that idea that like pain, but also joyful things are being like entwined together. And that is an important part of it. Because it's it's something that helps us center you and ground you have like the Okay, I've been here before. I know what's at the other end of that. And I've come out on the other end of that better not maybe not fully healed or fully arrived. Thankfully, the Lord doesn't expect us to ever fully arrive. But to know that like we can come out on the other side of this stronger than we were before and we may come back again but we know what that space looks like and it's not as scary of a place as we remembered me.

Gabrielle Leonard: 24:12

Yeah, man that's good Chandler that's really good. I I smiled big as as but halfway through you talking sounds like oh my gosh, I so hear in that a changing of the narrative like now I could I can almost like see this visual of every single one of those places where there was this backstitch happening for fortification, a new story began. Like those spaces, were ones places that if you would have looked back on those little markers would have been stories of just pain stories of just trauma stories of just loss. Every one of those spots. were painful, because something you lost something. Yeah. Whether that was you lost something about yourself. You lost something and you lost the relationship you lost. Yeah, there was just lost there. Right. And I hear in every time fortification was allowed, that something was actually being recovered. Something was actually being added to I hear the opportunity for a new storyline for a narrative change. So now when you look back at those moments, you're not just thinking about what was Last, but you're thinking about, I think I was hearing you say, looking back and knowing. Alright, I've been here before. And I know the other times that I've been here, this has been this has been a safe space. And other times when I've been here, healings happen, the other times when I've been here, I've, I've recovered, I've come away with a greater value for myself, when other times when I've been here, I've come away with a greater respect for and trust in what God's doing. And I've come away with a greater have actually a greater trust in other people that are in my life and not less, you know, I just hear some beautiful narrative change opportunities.

Unknown: 26:07

Yeah, and that's one of the things even just thinking of that, like the whole idea of something being restored, like the word stories in that like, yeah, and not a word person. So like, Don't come at me if that's not like the true actual definition of what that means. But I think that's a cool thing. Like something is being restored. You're there is a new story that's being written in that.

Gabrielle Leonard: 26:25

Yeah, man, that's beautiful. Chandler This was amazing. And I cannot imagine anyone not being blessed by this time that we've had together, you are incredible. And this is it's so clear that this is something that the Lord's deeply done in your life. This is not something that you just talk a good game about. This is something that you've lived, and you continue to live. And so I thank you for that. Because you just living this out, is blessing other people I know it does. For us, every single time you walk into a room, you you give permission for people to show up, like as themselves. And in that space of showing up. You also You were also giving permission for the Lord to be great in that space, and for him to heal, restore and do beautiful things within people. And so thank you so much for that. And I thank you so much for being on this episode.

Unknown: 27:18

Thank you for having me. And thank you for saying that any good that's come out of that is only glory can be given to God because that's not my natural inclination. So thank you. Hey, you

Gabrielle Leonard: 27:28

spoke beautifully. Thank you so much. If you're hearing this message, you've listened to the entire episode. And for that I am deeply grateful. I hope this episode resonated with you and if it did help us out by sharing this episode, and leaving a review on Apple podcasts, and Spotify. Most importantly, reach out to let me know how you're engaging with this episode, and what topics you'd like to see covered in the future. You can connect with us on social media, or get in touch with me directly at Gabrielle at return to joy.com to share your heart. I'll see you in two weeks for a new episode.